You know me - the cogs in my brain are ever whirring around, trying to make sense of a nonsensical world. I have been wondering about the FLDS dilemma. I know (from what I've read) that when someone in the FLDS world realizes that Warren is a deviant child-molester, then that someone must immediately be cut off from the 10,000-member congregation. I understand also that that person's wives and kids must then be assigned to a different family - a family that is still under the ether.
A mathematician might be able to figure this out better than me, but it seems that this process of realization will follow a certain graph, most likely an exponential one. At first, one girl will flee her church captors, and her family will have to deal with the mysteries and unanswered questions. "Where were you, dear? Why don't you want to wait for uncle Warren? Why are you angry with him? What did he do to you that is causing you so much trauma?"
Most likely at least one set of family members will recognize the signs and come face to face with the abuse and treachery. If that family has the courage, it will face the music and accept the instant excommunication and ostracism. Let's fast-forward a little into the future and see how, pretty soon, a bunch of families will wake up and accept the terrible reality. Perhaps some will even stand up to Warren's brother and his goons and begin to propagate the awful discovery to their fellow faithful. After all, how many families can you reassign before there is no one left to take them all in?
At what number is critical mass achieved? - 1,000, - - 5,000? The FLDS people are very obedient. They prefer to operate as a collective. When a goodly fraction of that collective is made aware of Warren's perversions and the degradation of their virtuous daughters, will they finally revolt and throw off the tyranny of the man behind the curtain? Whither will he run, and will he get there before law enforcement gets to him? I was never good at equations, especially when they entail a humanitarian crisis of such unthinkable proportions.
Your math is as good as mine.
On a similar note, this situation reminds me of a skit I saw recently from Monty Python's Flying Circus -
The Funniest Joke In The World.
The idea was that when a person happened upon this particular joke, it contained such lethal material that the reader instantly died - BRILLIANT !!!!!!!!
Friday, October 21, 2011
Critical Mass
Labels:
FLDS,
Flying Circus,
Isaac Jeffs,
Lyle Jeffs,
Monty Python,
polygamy,
Warren Jeffs
Tuesday, October 18, 2011
Escape From What?
A few years ago, Carolyin Jessop co-wrote a book titled ESCAPE. I think hers was more of a philosophical escape than anything else. Jessop received a college education and ran a business away from the twin towns. It would be more accurate to say that she left her religion and ran off with her kids. In her book there is much information which would be better described as tabloid entertainment than factual narrative.
Last week, a young woman who is alleged to have been one of Warren Jeffs' wives, ran from her previous residence and sought refuge. She reportedly sought protection with the family of one of the men who left the FLDS fold (under Lyle Jeffs) when he learned of Warren's molestation of his own 12-year-old girl partners.
So I have a question. I know Warren had more wives than one. Who knows - maybe 100? He was incarcerated over five years ago (August, 2006). Presumably, those scores of wives (ranging from 12 to 92) must have been housed somewhere. Recent photos show dozens of these very young wives all together in pastel prairie dresses. I can imagine that Warren didn't want anybody else messing with them while he was away awaiting his miraculous liberation. So where did they all get put? Were they all together, or were they grouped in several locations? Were they free to speak to the media? NO. Were they free to mingle with other community members and reveal their group sex party experiences? I don't think so.
This latest escapee appears to have had to go to extreme lengths to get free. Why? Was she being detained against her will - or, worse still - was she being compulsorily medicated to facilitate the restraint? I don't know. Where are the other young sister wives of hers? Presumably, they are all still being concealed/confined in some way. Maybe they get to sew and sing hymns, or even study the writings of Prophet Warren S. Jeffs. Do they go to school? NAHH! Are they free to go into town or drive around, or even talk to their chums on the cell-phone? I bet not. Do they know what a computer is? Would they even know what to think or do if they were to be liberated?
Has there been more than one who has fled this detention situation? Do the other ninety-nine want to flee also, but cannot? Can they escape and, if so, escape from what?
If they do escape, what tales will they tell? I can think of more than a few entities who are itching to get their hands on them. How healthy would that be?
Last week, a young woman who is alleged to have been one of Warren Jeffs' wives, ran from her previous residence and sought refuge. She reportedly sought protection with the family of one of the men who left the FLDS fold (under Lyle Jeffs) when he learned of Warren's molestation of his own 12-year-old girl partners.
So I have a question. I know Warren had more wives than one. Who knows - maybe 100? He was incarcerated over five years ago (August, 2006). Presumably, those scores of wives (ranging from 12 to 92) must have been housed somewhere. Recent photos show dozens of these very young wives all together in pastel prairie dresses. I can imagine that Warren didn't want anybody else messing with them while he was away awaiting his miraculous liberation. So where did they all get put? Were they all together, or were they grouped in several locations? Were they free to speak to the media? NO. Were they free to mingle with other community members and reveal their group sex party experiences? I don't think so.
This latest escapee appears to have had to go to extreme lengths to get free. Why? Was she being detained against her will - or, worse still - was she being compulsorily medicated to facilitate the restraint? I don't know. Where are the other young sister wives of hers? Presumably, they are all still being concealed/confined in some way. Maybe they get to sew and sing hymns, or even study the writings of Prophet Warren S. Jeffs. Do they go to school? NAHH! Are they free to go into town or drive around, or even talk to their chums on the cell-phone? I bet not. Do they know what a computer is? Would they even know what to think or do if they were to be liberated?
Has there been more than one who has fled this detention situation? Do the other ninety-nine want to flee also, but cannot? Can they escape and, if so, escape from what?
If they do escape, what tales will they tell? I can think of more than a few entities who are itching to get their hands on them. How healthy would that be?
Labels:
Carolyn Jessop,
escape,
FLDS,
Lyle Jeffs,
polygamy,
Sister Wives,
Warren Jeffs
Monday, October 10, 2011
America is Finished !!!
I watched a YouTube video today that gave me the convincing I finally needed that America is finished.
A civil rights proponent (U.S. Congressman) attended a rally organized by the Occupy Atlanta/(Wall Street) mob. He was scheduled to address the zombies in attendance but was turned away. Yours truly is at least as supportive of the eradication of the Federal Reserve banking system as are these hippie youths. Sadly, these robots appear to have had their brains removed. Watch and shudder!
A civil rights proponent (U.S. Congressman) attended a rally organized by the Occupy Atlanta/(Wall Street) mob. He was scheduled to address the zombies in attendance but was turned away. Yours truly is at least as supportive of the eradication of the Federal Reserve banking system as are these hippie youths. Sadly, these robots appear to have had their brains removed. Watch and shudder!
Labels:
Federal Reserve,
Hippies,
Occupy Wall Street,
Rep. John Lewis,
Zombies
Friday, October 7, 2011
Repo' Time
In an interview today, British MP, Daniel Hannan, predicted that Greece will default in a month or so. Hannan is a brilliant economist and political thinker who is willing to say what many others fear to. For an example of Hannan's vigorous denunciation of central banks, read his article More Money Printing.
I want to ask what will happen when Greece defaults. My guess is that in order to get all that loan money (that it cannot repay), it was required to put up the land area (surface and mineral) as collateral to the bank to secure the loans. You should know this story by now.
The banks have fancy, official-sounding names like - International Monetary Fund or Inter-European Redevelopment Bank, but you and I both know that these central national banks and central international banks are OWNED by somebody. Yes, owned by people like Kuhn, Loeb, Schiff, Rothschild, Lazard, and others. You rarely see these characters, but they still exist, and they still own the big banks, and the big banks are rapidly gobbling up all the small banks. Remember that what they give/lend to the people is paper or electronic (debit card) money. Remember that what they take in exchange is paper money with interest, and then when that runs out, they take the gold, silver and land.
It is important to remember that the Bolshevik revolution in Russia in 1917 was a repossession. Russia had been dragged into a century of wars with its neighbors, borrowing billions from the Dutch and French banks to pay the soldiers. Unable to pay principal or interest, Russia watched the banks send in their agents (Trotsky, Stalin, Lenin, Peter Hammer, Virl Schultz, and Herbert Walker Bush) to carry out the foreclosure. Time to repo the collateral. That couldn't be done without wiping out the royal family (so that it wouldn't rise up later and repudiate the creditor). The thinking at the time was that an enslaved, communist country would be a better credit risk.
In Russia the creditors seized the country through violence and by installing a new regime that would do their bidding. This has always been their vision for the whole world. It's hard for them to repossess your car if you are still driving it.
Greece will go under. It CANNOT keep up with its financial obligations. It never could. Through liberal, progressive socialism, the government's financial obligations were ratcheted ever upwards until they could NEVER be satisfied. So now what?
There is only one pathway. The creditor bank must install its own agents to govern the newly-liquidated country. This way, it can completely control where ALL the resources are allocated. By fomenting unrest and stirring up public riots, the bank can solidify the popular disillusionment with the old leaders, thus smoothing the transition to the new tyrannical rulers (see Egypt).
Problem is - Italy and Spain are not far behind. It's all been prophesied. The Mediterraneans and the Europeans are not uncomfortable with the veiled oppression of democratic socialism (having cowered under it for centuries). When all of Europe's economies are crippled, the people will acquiesce relatively peaceably. Not so, here Stateside. Pick your poison, I guess.
It's a bit like the atheism/evolution squabble. If you think humans came from tadpoles, and God is a fantasy, then the idea that He holds allodial title to this planet is laughable. In my view, I am His kid, and I walk this orb with His permission. The rodent devils who have raped and plundered it are in for a surprise more irksome than the repo-man. Strange that the LDS Church is so silent in this period of intense prophetic fulfillment.
I want to ask what will happen when Greece defaults. My guess is that in order to get all that loan money (that it cannot repay), it was required to put up the land area (surface and mineral) as collateral to the bank to secure the loans. You should know this story by now.
The banks have fancy, official-sounding names like - International Monetary Fund or Inter-European Redevelopment Bank, but you and I both know that these central national banks and central international banks are OWNED by somebody. Yes, owned by people like Kuhn, Loeb, Schiff, Rothschild, Lazard, and others. You rarely see these characters, but they still exist, and they still own the big banks, and the big banks are rapidly gobbling up all the small banks. Remember that what they give/lend to the people is paper or electronic (debit card) money. Remember that what they take in exchange is paper money with interest, and then when that runs out, they take the gold, silver and land.
It is important to remember that the Bolshevik revolution in Russia in 1917 was a repossession. Russia had been dragged into a century of wars with its neighbors, borrowing billions from the Dutch and French banks to pay the soldiers. Unable to pay principal or interest, Russia watched the banks send in their agents (Trotsky, Stalin, Lenin, Peter Hammer, Virl Schultz, and Herbert Walker Bush) to carry out the foreclosure. Time to repo the collateral. That couldn't be done without wiping out the royal family (so that it wouldn't rise up later and repudiate the creditor). The thinking at the time was that an enslaved, communist country would be a better credit risk.
In Russia the creditors seized the country through violence and by installing a new regime that would do their bidding. This has always been their vision for the whole world. It's hard for them to repossess your car if you are still driving it.
Greece will go under. It CANNOT keep up with its financial obligations. It never could. Through liberal, progressive socialism, the government's financial obligations were ratcheted ever upwards until they could NEVER be satisfied. So now what?
There is only one pathway. The creditor bank must install its own agents to govern the newly-liquidated country. This way, it can completely control where ALL the resources are allocated. By fomenting unrest and stirring up public riots, the bank can solidify the popular disillusionment with the old leaders, thus smoothing the transition to the new tyrannical rulers (see Egypt).
Problem is - Italy and Spain are not far behind. It's all been prophesied. The Mediterraneans and the Europeans are not uncomfortable with the veiled oppression of democratic socialism (having cowered under it for centuries). When all of Europe's economies are crippled, the people will acquiesce relatively peaceably. Not so, here Stateside. Pick your poison, I guess.
It's a bit like the atheism/evolution squabble. If you think humans came from tadpoles, and God is a fantasy, then the idea that He holds allodial title to this planet is laughable. In my view, I am His kid, and I walk this orb with His permission. The rodent devils who have raped and plundered it are in for a surprise more irksome than the repo-man. Strange that the LDS Church is so silent in this period of intense prophetic fulfillment.
Labels:
Bolshevik Revolution,
Czar Nicholas,
Greece,
LDS Church,
Rothschild,
usury
Sunday, October 2, 2011
A Prophecy
BREAKING NEWS _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Esteemed Senior Apostle, Boyd K. Packer, of the LDS Church's Council of the Twelve announced a prophecy yesterday during the Church's semi-annual General Conference. Here is some of what the Salt Lake Tribune quoted - -
Peggy Fletcher Stack
The Salt Lake Tribune
Updated Oct 2, 2011 02:35AM "The end is not near," senior LDS apostle Boyd K. Packer said Saturday.
Today’s youths can look forward to "getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren," Packer told more than 20,000 Mormons gathered in the giant LDS Conference Center in downtown Salt Lake City.
This is monumental. Church leaders (who virtually never claim any specific revelations from God) have made very few prophecies in recent decades. This is a rather remarkable development. Mormon faithful will fawn over this surprising prediction. Depending on how old you are, you can presume that Packer is envisioning the "end" coming about in approximately 65 years. Who knew??? Gosh, I figured that the mere re-election of Obama would single-handedly cause the world to break in half . . . . .
The gratifying element in this prophetic surprise is that we can now all relax, right? What better way to lull the already wayward saints into lethargic complacency. It's kind of like the "All is well in Zion" reassurances. I'm not completely sure what Packer is alluding to when he refers to "the 'end'" (being decades away). I rather think of the Millennium as a beginning. It certainly won't terminate our Earth. It will, however, put an end to much iniquity and the smooth sayings of false prophets. Of the people of this day, Isaiah (in Chapter 30) said, --
9. That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord:
10. Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
Jeremiah agreed, prophesying (in Chapter 23), --
16. Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.
17. They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
18. For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?
19. Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
I am truly offended that this guy would be so pompous and disingenuous as to try to get us to believe that he has recently gained some special, insider knowledge, while at the same time he fails to quote the verbatim words of God to support such a prophecy. I will give his senility the benefit of the doubt. I am more dismayed that naive Mormons everywhere will gobble this up as a divine proclamation and then not "trim" their "lamps".
Equally galling was the renewed repudiation of polygamists (and fundamentalist Mormons) by Elder Russell Ballard. "They are", he says, "not affiliated with the Church" (other than having founded it [and the Salt Lake Valley], I guess).
In closing, let me comment that today's announcement of the construction of two new temples in Africa (Republic of the Congo, and South Africa), will hopefully not be followed by an announcement of their likely premature closing (as was the case with the Nigeria temple).
"And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well--and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell." (2 Nephi 28:21)
"And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well--and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell." (2 Nephi 28:21)
Labels:
Boyd K. Packer,
General Conference,
LDS Church,
polygamy,
Prophecy
Tuesday, September 27, 2011
Insult to Injury
Forgive my coarse language, but I had a couple of WTF moments yesterday. Before I get to that, here's a portion of a letter mailed by a telephone company to a subscriber:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOX NEWS yesterday aired a spot showing a gathering of residents of a small mid-western town. The people were welcoming home a young Iraq veteran who had lost his arm and both legs in an IED explosion. The reporter pointed out that the generous townspeople had managed to collect $50,000.00 in donations to pay for the soldier's medical expenses. WTF !!!!!!!!
Later, FOX NEWS reported that the International Monetary Fund has recently had to pay out so much in relief to failing nations like Greece, Ireland and Portugal, that it (the IMF) is now looking for approximately $3 trillion dollars in bailout money (the largest portion of which would need to come from U.S. taxpayers). WAIT !!! - wasn't it the IMF (and its private banker owners) who looted all our money in the first place through fractional reserve banking and usury? WTF !!!!!!!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lastly, I am starting to get befuddled by some of the circular reasoning surrounding polygamy. Some of it goes something like this:
"I resent these polygamists who break the law, take multiple wives and go on TV to parade their criminal lifestyle in our faces. I resent them because this should not be allowed, and they are breaking the law!"
Polygamy should be against the law because I resent it. It is offensive. It is against everything we are trying to do here in America."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mrs. XXXXXXX,
We have made repeated unsuccessful attempts to contact you by phone to inform you that your line has been disconnected. If you wish to pay the past due balance and have your line reconnected, please reply to this letter or call us on the phone.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------FOX NEWS yesterday aired a spot showing a gathering of residents of a small mid-western town. The people were welcoming home a young Iraq veteran who had lost his arm and both legs in an IED explosion. The reporter pointed out that the generous townspeople had managed to collect $50,000.00 in donations to pay for the soldier's medical expenses. WTF !!!!!!!!
Later, FOX NEWS reported that the International Monetary Fund has recently had to pay out so much in relief to failing nations like Greece, Ireland and Portugal, that it (the IMF) is now looking for approximately $3 trillion dollars in bailout money (the largest portion of which would need to come from U.S. taxpayers). WAIT !!! - wasn't it the IMF (and its private banker owners) who looted all our money in the first place through fractional reserve banking and usury? WTF !!!!!!!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lastly, I am starting to get befuddled by some of the circular reasoning surrounding polygamy. Some of it goes something like this:
"I resent these polygamists who break the law, take multiple wives and go on TV to parade their criminal lifestyle in our faces. I resent them because this should not be allowed, and they are breaking the law!"
Polygamy should be against the law because I resent it. It is offensive. It is against everything we are trying to do here in America."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The circular argument uses its own conclusion as one of its stated or unstated premises. Instead of offering proof, it simply asserts the conclusion in another form, thereby inviting the listener to accept it as settled when, in fact, it has not been settled. Because the premise is no different from and therefore as questionable as its conclusion, a circular argument violates the criterion of acceptability."
(T. Edward Damer, Attacking Faulty Reasoning. Wadsworth, 2001)
(T. Edward Damer, Attacking Faulty Reasoning. Wadsworth, 2001)
Wednesday, September 14, 2011
How do you argue with it?
I noticed yesterday that Joe Darger and his three glamorous wives appeared on Good Morning America to announce the publication of their new book, LOVE TIMES THREE (written with reporter, Brooke Adams).
I wish to make merely one observation. There are apparently several unmentionable hater-harpies who cannot contain their tooth-gnashing over this. From what I understand, the Dargers are decent people with normal kids and a moderately successful lifestyle. The hate crusaders will rant on ad nauseam about child brides, lost boys, baby cemeteries, incest, maleducation, welfare fraud, and God knows what else, but none of that applies to the Dargers.
Truth is, there is no such thing as a "typical" polygamist family, so you cannot make sweeping generalizations about people from this culture. I know the Mother Church is cringing over this new, happy band of polygs stepping into the cosmopolitan limelight. Shurtleff is at a loss as to what to do. The Browns want to show they have been threatened by a felony bigamy statute, and Shurtleff insists that the statute is there, not to prosecute polygamists, but rather to teach the people of Utah the wisdom of their elders.
I would never try to tell a gay man he is evil not to be attracted to women. Likewise, the haters can whine on endlessly about the wrongness of plural marriage, but they cannot argue with reality, and now reality is staring us all in the face. I understand that one of the approaches recently taken by the haters is to say that the Dargers' book is poorly written. I just read the book, and I can tell you that the content and linguistic delivery are both impressive, so I can only assume that the haters cannot read, or that they did not in fact read the book. Truth is - the message of the book is entirely autobiographical. It is hard to argue with facts, and it is not easy to argue that another person's feelings are not really his or her feelings. The Darger family explodes the prevailing stereotypes. The Dargers' television appearances have silenced many critics. Their very existence neutralizes all of the tabloidy, sensationalistic squawking about polygamy in general. I cannot wait to see Dr. Drew do a '180' on his own show.
I wish to make merely one observation. There are apparently several unmentionable hater-harpies who cannot contain their tooth-gnashing over this. From what I understand, the Dargers are decent people with normal kids and a moderately successful lifestyle. The hate crusaders will rant on ad nauseam about child brides, lost boys, baby cemeteries, incest, maleducation, welfare fraud, and God knows what else, but none of that applies to the Dargers.
Truth is, there is no such thing as a "typical" polygamist family, so you cannot make sweeping generalizations about people from this culture. I know the Mother Church is cringing over this new, happy band of polygs stepping into the cosmopolitan limelight. Shurtleff is at a loss as to what to do. The Browns want to show they have been threatened by a felony bigamy statute, and Shurtleff insists that the statute is there, not to prosecute polygamists, but rather to teach the people of Utah the wisdom of their elders.
I would never try to tell a gay man he is evil not to be attracted to women. Likewise, the haters can whine on endlessly about the wrongness of plural marriage, but they cannot argue with reality, and now reality is staring us all in the face. I understand that one of the approaches recently taken by the haters is to say that the Dargers' book is poorly written. I just read the book, and I can tell you that the content and linguistic delivery are both impressive, so I can only assume that the haters cannot read, or that they did not in fact read the book. Truth is - the message of the book is entirely autobiographical. It is hard to argue with facts, and it is not easy to argue that another person's feelings are not really his or her feelings. The Darger family explodes the prevailing stereotypes. The Dargers' television appearances have silenced many critics. Their very existence neutralizes all of the tabloidy, sensationalistic squawking about polygamy in general. I cannot wait to see Dr. Drew do a '180' on his own show.
Labels:
Flora Jessop,
Joe Darger,
Kody Brown,
Love Times Three,
Mark Shurtleff,
polygamy
Tuesday, September 13, 2011
I Have To Laugh
Obama is traveling from state to state touting his brilliant new job creation idea - an "American Jobs Bill". He is preaching to teachers and students that it is time to "create" new jobs for teachers and firemen, and for construction workers to build new government road projects. This half-a-trillion-dollar STIMULUS plan intends to spend this money over one year and then tax us to pay for it over the next ten years. How can this plan sensibly infuse money into the private sector of the economy if it intends to suck out the same amount of money (plus interest) immediately thereafter? 4 - 4 = 0
I know Obama is not unintelligent, so I can only conclude that he is a complete, socialist &$$h@le !!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's more - he knows that Congress will not pass this stupid bill, so he just wants to be able to campaign on the lament that he was trying to create jobs, and the rotten, evil Republican congress stood in the way.
I have to laugh!
I know Obama is not unintelligent, so I can only conclude that he is a complete, socialist &$$h@le !!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's more - he knows that Congress will not pass this stupid bill, so he just wants to be able to campaign on the lament that he was trying to create jobs, and the rotten, evil Republican congress stood in the way.
I have to laugh!
Tuesday, September 6, 2011
Make Up Your Mind
I am including the full text of an AP article below because it is indicative of the insanity of the State of Utah. Attorney Jonathan Turley recently filed a lawsuit against the State of Utah, challenging its idiotic bigamy statute, on behalf of the Kody Brown family. Utah's Attorney General is arguing that the Brown family lacks the necessary standing to challenge the law. The assertion is that the Browns have not been sufficiently "harmed" to claim justifiable standing.
It's all fine and dandy for the AG to support an ongoing criminal investigation, then say that charges will not necessarily be forthcoming, but he has to eventually make up his fricking mind.
If the Utah county prosecutor proceeds to arrest the Brown family, the Browns will then have the harm/standing they need to challenge the law. Buhman will likely not do that, because neither Shurtleff nor his Church wants Reynolds overturned.
If the AG insists that there is ZERO possibility that the Browns will ever be arrested for consenting adult polygamy (protected under Lawrence), then he is in effect saying that Utah's stupid bigamy statute is unenforceable and that he never intends to apply it.
I'm no legal scholar, but it seems to me that, if a law is utterly eviscerated and effectively dead, then someone - namely someone who is still menaced by it - ought to be able to step up and demand that the courts or the legislature repeal it, permanently.
The double-talk coming out of assistant A.G. Jerrold Jensen's mouth is stunning. He says that no mere consenting adult polygamists have been arrested for more than 50 years. READ MY LIPS - this is a LIE !!!!!!!!! Mark Easterday (of Monroe, Utah) was arrested in 1999 for practicing polygamy with his wife, Pepper, and his girl-friend Marian. He pleaded the charge down to adultery and paid a $500.00 fine. Since that time, someone has gone into the court records in that county and changed the documents to reflect that Easterday was originally charged with adultery. This is fraud.
I expect that the Federal court will look dimly on Utah's lack-of-standing argument. There has been enough saber-rattling in the last year to frighten any family into exile, let alone a family with four wives and a TV show.
Anyway, I don't care. Utah has now painted itself into an exquisite and impossible corner. It is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. What's more, I just got wind of another consenting adult polygamist family which is going to storm into the spotlight next week. Sooner or later, Snotlick is going to have to make up his mother-loving mind and grow a backbone. Listen - there are tens of thousands of polygs in Arizona and Utah. Make up your mind - arrest us or shut up. You simply cannot have it both ways. If you think this legal ambivalence is trivial, think about it this way - - - - -
I, Renn Oldsbuster, hereby challenge the Attorney General AND the Utah legislature to pick one of the following two statements and then publish it in the newspaper and online:
A. "Utah's bigamy statute squarely applies to informal religious relationships between consenting adults, and we intend to pursue the prosecution of all Utahns found to be involved in such relationships."
OR ---
B. "We admit that the purport and cohabit prongs of Utah's bigamy statute constitute impermissible targeting of a religious minority, therefore we publicly proclaim our repudiation of this statutory language, and promise all consenting adult polygamists that, even if the law stays on the books, we will NEVER apply it to them. We also encourage the legislature to change the statute to criminalize only those parties who fraudulently obtain more than one legal marriage license."
Pick one, SNOTLICK!
Further evidence of the AG's broken memory is the fact that Judge Walter Steed was removed from his judgeship because he has three partners. If the anti-bigamy statute will not be used to target polygamists, why does the AG use it to target them?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all fine and dandy for the AG to support an ongoing criminal investigation, then say that charges will not necessarily be forthcoming, but he has to eventually make up his fricking mind.
If the Utah county prosecutor proceeds to arrest the Brown family, the Browns will then have the harm/standing they need to challenge the law. Buhman will likely not do that, because neither Shurtleff nor his Church wants Reynolds overturned.
If the AG insists that there is ZERO possibility that the Browns will ever be arrested for consenting adult polygamy (protected under Lawrence), then he is in effect saying that Utah's stupid bigamy statute is unenforceable and that he never intends to apply it.
I'm no legal scholar, but it seems to me that, if a law is utterly eviscerated and effectively dead, then someone - namely someone who is still menaced by it - ought to be able to step up and demand that the courts or the legislature repeal it, permanently.
The double-talk coming out of assistant A.G. Jerrold Jensen's mouth is stunning. He says that no mere consenting adult polygamists have been arrested for more than 50 years. READ MY LIPS - this is a LIE !!!!!!!!! Mark Easterday (of Monroe, Utah) was arrested in 1999 for practicing polygamy with his wife, Pepper, and his girl-friend Marian. He pleaded the charge down to adultery and paid a $500.00 fine. Since that time, someone has gone into the court records in that county and changed the documents to reflect that Easterday was originally charged with adultery. This is fraud.
I expect that the Federal court will look dimly on Utah's lack-of-standing argument. There has been enough saber-rattling in the last year to frighten any family into exile, let alone a family with four wives and a TV show.
Anyway, I don't care. Utah has now painted itself into an exquisite and impossible corner. It is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. What's more, I just got wind of another consenting adult polygamist family which is going to storm into the spotlight next week. Sooner or later, Snotlick is going to have to make up his mother-loving mind and grow a backbone. Listen - there are tens of thousands of polygs in Arizona and Utah. Make up your mind - arrest us or shut up. You simply cannot have it both ways. If you think this legal ambivalence is trivial, think about it this way - - - - -
I, Renn Oldsbuster, hereby challenge the Attorney General AND the Utah legislature to pick one of the following two statements and then publish it in the newspaper and online:
A. "Utah's bigamy statute squarely applies to informal religious relationships between consenting adults, and we intend to pursue the prosecution of all Utahns found to be involved in such relationships."
OR ---
B. "We admit that the purport and cohabit prongs of Utah's bigamy statute constitute impermissible targeting of a religious minority, therefore we publicly proclaim our repudiation of this statutory language, and promise all consenting adult polygamists that, even if the law stays on the books, we will NEVER apply it to them. We also encourage the legislature to change the statute to criminalize only those parties who fraudulently obtain more than one legal marriage license."
Pick one, SNOTLICK!
Further evidence of the AG's broken memory is the fact that Judge Walter Steed was removed from his judgeship because he has three partners. If the anti-bigamy statute will not be used to target polygamists, why does the AG use it to target them?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) Sept. 6, 2011 —
State attorneys say a federal court challenge to Utah's bigamy law by the "Sister Wives" cable TV show family should be dismissed because they can't prove they've been threatened with arrest or prosecution.
State attorneys say a federal court challenge to Utah's bigamy law by the "Sister Wives" cable TV show family should be dismissed because they can't prove they've been threatened with arrest or prosecution.
Polygamist Kody Brown and his four wives — Meri, Janelle, Christine, and Robyn — filed their lawsuit in Salt Lake City's U.S. District Court in July. A criminal investigation of the family began after the launch of their TLC reality show in fall 2010.
No charges have been filed by either the state of Utah or prosecutors in Utah County, where the family, which includes 16 children, lived. The family moved to Nevada in January and contends they were forced to leave Utah in order to avoid prosecution.
But in court papers filed Sept. 1, the attorney general's office argues that criminal charges aren't necessarily forthcoming.
"They have not been warned that if they do not cease to engage in their polygamous relationships that legal actions will be taken against them," Assistant Utah Attorney General Jerrold S. Jensen wrote. "And — what is probably the tipping point — there have been no arrests or prosecutions for the mere practice of polygamy in Utah in over 50 years."
Court papers say the policy of the Utah attorney general's office is only to prosecute polygamists for bigamy when it occurs in conjunction with other crimes.
In a statement provided by e-mail, the Brown's attorney, Jonathan Turley, said the state's motion for a dismissal is an effort to avoid scrutiny of an unconstitutional law.
"Under this extreme position, state officials can criminalize any private relationship while denying the right of citizens to challenge the law, even when those citizens are denounced as presumptive felons by prosecutors in the media," Turley, a professor at George Washington University in Washington D.C. "We will vigorously oppose the effort to close the door of the courthouse to this family."
Under Utah law, it is illegal for unmarried persons to cohabitate, or "purport" to be married. A person is also guilty of bigamy if they hold multiple legal marriage licenses.
The third-degree felony is punishable by up to five years in state prison. Both men and women can be prosecuted under the law, which also applies to unmarried, monogamous couples that live together.
The Brown's lawsuit asks a federal judge to declare the law unconstitutional.
Appellate court records shows that only three bigamy cases have been prosecuted in Utah since 1960, the state said in its court filing. All three cases involved crimes other than bigamy, including fraud, criminal non-support of spouses and children and sexual assault of a minor.
Utah County has no stated policy on prosecuting polygamy, but historically has a similar practice, Jeffrey Buhman, the county attorney states in affidavit filed with the court.
Buhman has said his office's investigation is ongoing and no decision about whether or not to prosecute the Browns has ever been announced.
Early Mormon settlers brought polygamy to Utah in the 1840s. Leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints abandoned the practice in 1890 however, as Utah moved toward statehood.
The Browns belong to the Apostolic United Brethren, one of handful of self-described Mormon fundamentalist churches that continue the practice as part of their faith.
The polygamy advocacy group Principle Voices estimates there are about 40,000 fundamentalists who practice or believe in polygamy living in Utah and other western states.
Like most polygamists in Utah, Brown is legally married only to his first wife, Meri. He subsequently "wed" Janelle, Christine and Robyn only in religious ceremonies and the couples consider themselves "spiritually married."
Turley has said the focus of the family's lawsuit is really privacy, not polygamy. The Browns are not challenging Utah's right to refuse to recognize plural marriage nor are they seeking multiple marriage licenses.
"What they are asking for is the right to structure their own lives, their own family, according to their faith and their beliefs," he said at a news conference outside the federal courthouse two months ago.
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